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The Catholic New World


Servite Father John Pawlikowski: “By all means, our concern is the people who are suffering on both sides of the battle lines.”

Catholic New World photo by David V. Kamba

A regular feature of The Catholic New World, The InterVIEW is an in-depth conversation with a person whose words, actions or ideas affect today’s Catholic. It may be affirming of faith or confrontational. But it will always be stimulating.


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Christians have special concern for the Mideast

Servite Father John Pawlikowski directs the Catholic-Jewish Studies program at Catholic Theologial Union in Chicago and holds a doctorate from the University of Chicago. As president of the International Council of Christians and Jews, he specializes in the ethical and theological aspects of the Christian-Jewish relationship, and has been participating in an online discussion of the situation in the Middle East sponsored by Boston College’s Center for Christian Jewish Learning. A link to the discussion can be found on CTU’s Web site, www.ctu.edu.

He spoke with Catholic New World staff writer Michelle Martin on July 26, as the death toll mounted on both side of the Israeli-Lebanese border.



The Catholic New World: Why should we care about the fighting in the Holy Land, as apposed to conflicts elsewhere around the world?

Servite Father John T. Pawlikowski: First of all, I think we’ve had a big commitment in recent years to the whole idea of basic human dignity. Very recently, Pope Benedict once again emphasized the centrality of human dignity, so wherever human dignity is being affronted, we need to be concerned as Catholic Christians.

I think there are special realities that make it important that we be concerned about what’s happening in this region. First is the historic one. That whole area is the birthplace of the three great Abrahamic religions, including Christianity, so I think we have a special attachment that we might not have to other places. That doesn’t mean we’re not concerned about people dying in Indonesia or Japan or anywhere else. But it does add a certain dimension [to know] that here is where our own religious tradition started, where the religious traditions we’re closest to, Judaism and Islam, also began.

I would say, thirdly, that since the Second Vatican Council we have developed a very strong relationship with Judaism and also Islam. The Jewish-Christian dialogue was very central to the pastoral work of Pope John Paul II, and Pope Benedict has reaffirmed that. Here in the Archdiocese of Chicago, Cardinal Bernardin had a strong commitment to Catholic-Jewish relations and was beginning to develop some relations with Islam. Cardinal George has certainly continued the commitment to Christian-Jewish relations but also heightened the commitment to the very positive relationship with the Islamic community.

I think we have kind of a special relationship both with the Jewish community and the Islamic community. I don’t think we can be brokers between them, but when we see these two religious traditions at deep odds, there is an impulse to see if we can’t play some kind of constructive role in trying to bring about a peaceful resolution.

Lastly, given our historic relationship to the area, there has been a new concern that the relationship might be reduced to what might be called “monument Christianity” without a living Christian community. Particularly with Lebanon, one of the few areas there where we have a still significant Christian minority. That’s also to some extent true of northern Galilee, so in a sense Christians are in potential danger on both sides of the battle lines—in places like Nazareth, which is within the range of Hezbollah rockets and is one of the more important centers of Arab Christianity.



TCNW: What’s our concern—saving the monuments or the people?

SFJP: By all means, our concern is the people who are suffering on both sides of the battle. There are so many pressures on the Christian community right now—pressures coming from various sides, certainly the strong Islamicization of the Arab world doesn’t auger well for the vitality of the Christian community. Pope Benedict has raised the question of religious rights for Christians in Arab lands.



TCNW: There are Christians on both sides, but it’s not really their fight, is it?

SFJP: They’re kind of caught up in a battle that essentially does not involve Christianity per se. The Arab Christians in northern Israel are part of a state they didn’t bring into existence. Many have a kind of uncertain loyalty to the state. There have been many polls that indicate that these people, if given the opportunity, would rather stay in Israel than move to a new Palestinian state. There’s a concern they haven’t been adequately protected in terms of the bombings.

In Lebanon, it’s complicated. The Catholic Christian community probably played a role politically that went far beyond what its numbers would warrant; they were part of the political elite. That’s changed now. They are a minority community. They see it’s not in their interest to have a Lebanon run by a government that is strongly for the Islamicization of Lebanon.



TCNW: What should the church do to help the situation?

SFJP: I don’t think we can start preaching as though we historically have not been guilty of using religion in violent ways. We’ve done that and maybe still do that in some places.

I don’t know if there’s some role we can play in trying to create a behind-the-scenes conversation between the Jewish and Islamic communities. I know [with the battles] it’s been extremely difficult to see any basis for conversation. Each side is absolutely convinced of the morality of its cause. It’s hard for them to see that … there are some moral ambiguities.

As an ethicist, I try to apply the classical just-war theory to this situation. While I think that while one can make an argument for the Israeli military response to an unprovoked attack so that the conditions for what we traditionally call jus ad bellum—the right to war—have been met, it’s important to stress that the Vatican statements, the U.S. bishops’ statements have all put the responsibility clearly on Hezbollah. But in the light of the just war theory, we must move on to question the tactics within war.



TCNW: How do your partners in dialogue see this?

SFJP: Many people, perhaps most, regard the Second World War as morally justified. That doesn’t mean you can’t ask questions about the saturation bombings of Dresden, even dropping the A-bomb. You can question tactics. Without seeming to be overly pretentious in terms of the Catholic moral tradition, my experience has been that the Jewish ethical tradition, while it has something to say about war, because Jews have not found themselves as a nation with political power until very recently, I don’t know if they have developed a sophisticated moral evaluation system in the same way. I think the Jewish community basically judges its morality on the basis of the need to survive. In light of the Holocaust, in light of anti-Semitism, it’s very hard for a Christian to tell a Jew, ‘No, you have to go beyond survival.”

Once you identify it that way, you do what it takes. There’s a certain emphasis on Israeli tactics; the Hezbollah tactics are just as bad, if not worse. They’re engaged in indiscriminate rocket attacks against civilian populations. They are just simply intending to create fear and apprehension among the population in hopes they’ll put political pressure on their government.



TCNW: It doesn’t seem to work that way.

SFJP: No. Right here you’re dealing with two very intractable people, and I don’t say that necessarily in a negative sense. You can’t wipe out the Shoah experience in terms of the Israeli psyche; I’m not suggesting you should, The determination is there that we want to live and we’re gonna live, whatever it takes.

On the Hezbollah side, there have been some interesting analyses. Largely Hezbollah has won the hearts and souls of people who are essentially on the margins of Lebanese society. Many of these people feel as though this is the first time they have had any sense of dignity and respect. They’re not about to give that up very easily.

TCNW: How do you see this ending?

SFJP: I would agree with this contention by the Israelis, that a ceasefire should not simply bring us back to what was a few weeks ago because there was clear violation of the UN resolution whereby Israel left Lebanon. There should not be just uncontrolled [action] by Hezbollah in southern Lebanon. That is going to have to be attended to in some way, whether it is multinational peace force or whatever. I very much would like to see a ceasefire, I would support what Pope Benedict has called for, what CRS has urged—a safe corridor for medical and emergency supplies for the people.

A ceasefire does have to have some kind of change. Otherwise, in a few months we’re back with the same thing.

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