Catholic New World: The Interview

Mission Chicago: Coming back to Jesus

When Cardinal George tapped Father Robert Barron to revitalize evangelization efforts in the archdiocese, he seems to have been looking for the best of both worlds. Barron, part academic, part popular preacher, has had a radio show for five years and taught theology at Mundelein Seminary for 14. Now Catholics can see and hear him in person as part of “Mission Chicago” at a series of parish “mini-missions” that will culminate the evening of Palm Sunday, April 9, at Holy Name Cathedral. Barron also organized “24 Hours of Grace” in which priests were available at six parishes to offer the Sacrament of Reconciliation from 9 a.m. March 3 to 9 a.m. March 4.

He spoke to staff writer Michelle Martin at the Catholic Festival of Faith Feb. 16.

The Catholic New World: What’s new about “Mission Chicago”? What’s old?

Father Robert Barron: What’s new is the effort itself, the idea that Catholics ought to be evangelized and ought to be evangelizers. It’s the way Vatican II, Paul VI and John Paul II brought evangelization back into the heart of the operation. The fact that the cardinal asked me to work on this project and make this central to the consciousness of Catholics, I think that’s something new.

What else is new, and this is John Paul II as well, is galvanizing inactive Catholics, and that’s really my goal. I’m not focusing so much on getting Hindus or Muslims or non-believers into the church. I’m not focusing on bringing Protestants into Catholicism. I’m focusing on getting inactive Catholics back. That’s part of what John Paul II meant by “the new evangelization.”

With the warm-up talks we’re doing in the parishes, we’re asking each person to bring somebody. Bring somebody in your family or in your circle of friends. That’s primarily what’s new.

What’s old: Evangelization of the world is as old as Paul and Jesus saying. “Go and teach all nations.” The heart of it is that Jesus Christ is Lord—that’s evangelization.

If you declare the Lord to be Jesus Christ, it means he must be the center of your life. Everything in your life must belong to him. He’s not one religious figure among many. What undermines evangelization is the view that Jesus didn’t rise from the dead, therefore he’s not God, and he’s one kind of intriguing figure among many. Those are theological mistakes that undermine evangelization.

What I’m trying to do is correct that and just be very blunt and clear and simple. Jesus is Lord, he is risen from the dead, therefore he is who he says he is, he is God, and therefore your whole life must belong to him. That’s as classic as the New Testament, and I’m going to try to use that language.

Another thing that’s new is the willingness to use anything in the culture that helps, and that’s John Paul II as well. Use what’s available in the culture, and see if that works to bring the message to greater clarity.

TCNW: What in our culture is good? What can you use?

FRB: Our culture is a reflection of human nature. Human nature is in the image of God, but it’s flawed. Therefore, we shouldn’t be surprised that there are negative elements—there always have been, always will be—and we shouldn’t be surprised that there are very positive elements.

One thing I play with a lot is the American sense of freedom. Freedom is the great value in American culture. Is that good? Well, yes. Freedom is a deep Gospel value. Christ Jesus will set you free. I think the move toward freedom in the 18th century was born of very good impulses within Christianity. Now we have to reconfigure it. American freedom tended to evolve into self-expression—what I want to do—and there’s a negative side to it. But we come forward with a message of, “I’ve got real freedom for you. I’ve got the real freedom which is found in becoming a slave of Jesus Christ,” and that’s Paul’s paradox.

Another feature is the American sense of community—“E pluribus unum,” a very strong sense of from these many we forge one culture, one nation. I think that’s a deeply Christian idea. It’s eschatological. It’s all the nations coming together as one. We’ve been forced by our own history to get along with each other. We’re radically different people, different religious background, different ethnic background, we’ve got immigrants coming from all over the world. We’re compelled by our own cultural situation to find a way.

I like pop music. You can hear spirituality all the time in pop music if you listen. U2, Bono I think is one of the great evangelists on the scene today. You know: “I still haven’t found what I’m looking for. I’ve crossed the desert, I’ve climbed the highest mountain, and I still haven’t found what I’m looking for.” That’s Augustine’s longing for God.

My hero is Bob Dylan. Bob Dylan is full of spiritual themes; he’s like Jeremiah. He’s like an Old Testament sage.

We want to be attentive to the culture. We can’t be one-sided. We can’t say, the culture is terrible, the church is great, we’re against the culture. We engage the culture. We look at what’s negative in it, and we try to correct it.

TCNW: When you reach out to people who are away from the church, how do you balance the positive—the message that God loves them—with the more negative—the message that this is what is required of you?

FRB: What’s OK in people is the longing, and to name that and to emphasize that is OK. That’s a sign that you are in the image and likeness of God. What’s not OK is not bringing that image to full expression, and, we would say in our ecclesiology, that would happen in the church.

It’s like telling a kid, you’ve got a lot of basic ability. You’re athletic. But now you need to come to practice every day. You need to get out on the field and play. You need to commit yourself to a whole series of masters who will teach you how to play baseball. You learn that through years of disciplined apprenticeship. What’s really good in people is this deep longing for God, which pops up in thousand ways.

What’s not good is saying, “Well, that’s enough. I’ll just get on with my life.” The church is saying get into the field and practice and enter into this reality.

You can’t say, as a Catholic, I’m in full relationship with Jesus Christ, but I don’t care about the church. You can’t say that coherently. You can’t say I am fully participating in the spiritual life, but I just don’t like the church. That’s like saying I’m a great piano player. I just never practice. You might have the chops—you might have what it takes to be a great piano player, but you won’t be unless you practice.

That’s what’s missing for a lot of people. If the stats are right, 75 percent of Catholics stay away from Mass on a regular basis. That’s unacceptable, from my perspective.

TCNW: Why are you the right person to do this?

FRB: You have to ask the cardinal. If I were to guess, I’d say it’s because I’ve been doing evangelical work for a long time. I’ve been on the radio for the past five years. I go all over the country preaching, so I do a lot of workshops and retreats and talks and that sort of thing. I’m guessing, too here, that I’ve always been a theology professor for the past 14 years, and I’ve written seven books, and so I have I think a pretty strong sense of the Catholic tradition. I think it’s a combination of those two things.

TCNW: I’m sensing a theme of balance here.

FRB: Karl Barth was the greatest Protestant theologian of the last century, and he was famous for the dialectical theology, either/or, like from Kierkegaard. I taught for many years at Mundelein that the great Catholic move is the both/and: faith and reason, nature and grace, Jesus and Mary, Scripture and tradition. Protestants tended to drive the wedge: sola Scriptura, or Scripture and not tradition; gratia sola, grace and not nature, Barth said nature is a crater left by the explosion of grace. Catholic tradition has always been in the other direction, toward a both/and approach.

Barth said, “The trouble with you Catholics is always that damnedable Catholic and.” And that’s what he meant.

TCNW: How are new media changing the way we do evangelization?

FRB: I’m excited about the DVDs. I gave a mission out at Mundelein. The producer was clever, and I he did it very well. He filmed the talks, but he wove into it lots of music and images, so there, it’s got that video sensibility. It’s not just a talking head. I find that deeply Catholic. When you walk into gothic cathedrals, you see films—stories in colored pictures, using the high-tech of the 13th century. We’ve got high tech now; why not use films and videos and tell the story in colored pictures?

So if I make reference to Caravaggio, up comes a Caravaggio picture. If I make reference to the Sistine ceiling, up comes the image of the Sistine ceiling. We have a very visual tradition, a very artistic tradition.

In Protestant tradition the word is central. In Catholic tradition, it’s the word and image, so we’re in a very good position to use the new media.

TCNW: Where do you go from here?

FRB: I hope this is just the beginning. It’s scratching the surface of the surface.

The people who will come will be the ones who are amendable to it.

My hope is that everyone who comes will bring someone. Bring an inactive Catholic. Bring someone who’s mad at the church. Bring someone who’s bored spiritually. Bring someone who’s fed up.

The Gospel for tomorrow (Feb. 17) is perfect. It’s the story of the paralytic whose friends bring him to Jesus. So I’m going to make that pitch tomorrow. We all know a lot of people who are unable to move in regards to the church. They’re paralyzed, by anger, by fear, whatever. OK. Pick them up. You pick them up and bring them.

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